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Old April 24th, 2010, 23:15   #1
Kokanee
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People who want CF kit (non-surplus)

I just wanted to take a moment to address an issue I've seen cropping up more and more here on the buy&sell.

There are users here asking for or selling non-surplussed gear such as TacVests, small packs, cadpat leather gloves, cadpat raingear etc. I'm currently serving in a front-line unit, and we are experiencing extreme shortages of equipment. Regarding the above mentioned tacvest, we don't even have enough on base to ensure that soldiers posted into the unit each get one, we're down to sharing and cannibalizing from those who are in staff/HQ positions, long term medical restriction etc.

Persons who actively seek to acquire these kit items are fueling the market for black market goods, pieces of kit going walking from supply depots is an issue right now, and publically demonstrating an interest does not help the matter.

I urge any player here who counts themselves as patriotic and pro forces to not engage in the purchase or trade in non-surplussed CF issue kit. There are many alternative sources for similar items available; and for example the TV is a piece of crap, why would you want one?

Anyway, thanks for reading, cheers.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 23:20   #2
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I'm suprised that such basic tools of warfighting are in short supply for deployed troops. I agree with your motion of not supporting the sale and trade of these items. People who want to do an impression of the CF could try to focus on those lucky troops that get to use better gear than what is normally issued.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 23:38   #3
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Should be stickied.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 23:49   #4
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+1. I think this is the one time that it's okay to pretend you're a 1337 operator who gets to use his own gear over his Cadpat.
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Old April 25th, 2010, 00:22   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOX_111 View Post
I'm suprised that such basic tools of warfighting are in short supply for deployed troops.
Not to get political, but thank the Liberals for that. During the Gulf war, they had to strip mannequins in the museums to get uniforms for the troops.

This should definitely be stickied, so people can be made aware of the problem. Don't steal from the troops.
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Old April 25th, 2010, 06:37   #6
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Stickied (thereby dooming the thread to go ignored by most :P )

Weren't troops allowed to get their own vests now?

And what ever happened with Integrated Soldier System, weren't they looking at the TT 2-piece MAV, amongst others, last fall?
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Old April 25th, 2010, 06:59   #7
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Stickied (thereby dooming the thread to go ignored by most :P )

Weren't troops allowed to get their own vests now?

And what ever happened with Integrated Soldier System, weren't they looking at the TT 2-piece MAV, amongst others, last fall?
Yes most units allow personal purchase rigs for Overseas deployment, but not for garrison or field duty here in county.

Yes they are looking at a new Vest but as with all other procurement processes in Canada it will take longer than it actually should to the detriment of Soldiers themselves.
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Old April 25th, 2010, 09:07   #8
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Any CF procurement project usually takes around 10 years from start to finish and I am not joking. Afghanistan has helped to acelerate this process due to immediate operational requirements to meet a threat or a specific need. You must all understand that with the size of our military we dont have factories continually making new gear for us. We pass a larger order and when the inventory gets low we place another order. However it can take years sometimes to recieve that order and you also have budget cuts to reduce the speed of the process also. They system isn't perfect but it works in the long run.

Just as an example the project cloth the soldier started around 1998 and in 2010 it is not yet completed. Another example, last week I saw in the classifieds a pair of Cadpat boots for sale. Distribution of these new boots have just start this year for troops deploying in Afghanistan and they are already up for sale.

Last edited by H1TMAN; April 25th, 2010 at 09:11..
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Old April 25th, 2010, 09:29   #9
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The CADPAT boots are not entering General Issue according the CLS. Instead they are going to get a brown boot. I dont know why. Also the Desert boots that were issued for Roto 9, the boot company lost the contract and some people are unable to get issued desert boots, and those that got issued the desert boots are not impressed with the fact that they do not breath.

Also I agree with the OP 100% mainly because if you want to make an impression of teh CF while deployed overseas on a combat tour, buy your own rig like most members. The Tacvest is not even that great a vest and when I see Repo ones that people have purchased I ask them why.

Regards,

~Grimm
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Old April 25th, 2010, 09:46   #10
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Its has gotten to the point with our unit that guys go and either a. buy army "surplus" vests which can cost almost as much as a good rig or more. or b. they wear the patter 82 webbing(with auth from the CO).
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Old April 25th, 2010, 10:13   #11
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Good threead Kokanee, I've wondered about this for a while (again after seeing those CADPAT boots on sale last week). Butt ugly, yes, but still.......
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Old April 25th, 2010, 10:16   #12
Kokanee
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Thanks for the positive feedback from the post, it's appreciated. Let's just kep in mind that some of us are familiar with the system, and some are not, like below;

Quote:
Originally Posted by H1TMAN View Post
You must all understand that with the size of our military we dont have factories continually making new gear for us. We pass a larger order and when the inventory gets low we place another order. However it can take years sometimes to recieve that order...
Actually contracts are usually continuous, with deliveries happening over a span of time. It would make no sense to put out a contract, get stuff made then send everyone home, only to hire them back a year later to pump out more items. Delays are a result of the lack of capacity in the Canadian textiles industry, not that people are sitting around doing nothing.

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Originally Posted by H1TMAN View Post
...Just as an example the project cloth the soldier started around 1998 and in 2010 it is not yet completed....
CTS while originally mandated to procure a limited number of goods, eventually became a permanent fixture of the CF procurement system, like Natick Soldier Systems for the US Army. So to use CTS as an example of a project taking forever is disingenuous, and displays your complete lack of understanding regarding CTS and the procurement process. CTS is now charged with developing, researching and fielding new gear for the soldier on a continual basis.

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...Another example, last week I saw in the classifieds a pair of Cadpat boots for sale. Distribution of these new boots have just start this year for troops deploying in Afghanistan and they are already up for sale.
No, stop. The CADPAT boots you are seeing are samples done up for the "Temperate Combat Boot" project, which has been about 9 years in the running so far. Along with problems with the CADPAT pattern wearing off (see our new leather gloves for an example), RSM's etc provided too much resistance to their fielding, and the pattern was dropped from the boots. CADPAT boots are test samples, and thus surplus if you find them, and completely legal, fill your boots! (no pun intended). The CADPAT boot idea was recently trotted out as a control sample to test how well the latest version of the temperate boot (in brown) does.

The project has taken so long in fact, that a whole other boot was rushed into production as an "interim boot", the Mark 4. It's a wet weather boot sans the insulation, and is meant to address the fact that we are out of Mark 3's, with no replacement.

Anyway, enough from me. So let's all do our part to stop the spread of bullshit when it comes to CF gear; if you don't have a clue, walk away from the keyboard.

Last edited by Kokanee; April 25th, 2010 at 22:57..
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Old April 25th, 2010, 12:22   #13
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I sigh and shake my head everytime i see a cf issue vest on sale (especially in the local army surplus)

Didn't realize it was THAT bad though.... CF should stop giving every reservist a vest and start only giving them to the guys who need them, that'll free up allot for everybody else.
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Old April 25th, 2010, 12:48   #14
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Originally Posted by AngelusNex View Post
I sigh and shake my head everytime i see a cf issue vest on sale (especially in the local army surplus)

Didn't realize it was THAT bad though.... CF should stop giving every reservist a vest and start only giving them to the guys who need them, that'll free up allot for everybody else.
Ill equiping our reservists is NOT a good way to solve this issue. Reservists are out there doing just as good of a job as the regular force, so by targeting the reserves is just arrogence on your part. They need the equipment just as much as the next guy. There are many regular force members that you could say "don't need a TAC VEST".

With Operations including more and more reservists would you really want them to join you in an Operation without their full issued kit and properly know how to use it and have trained with it? I know I wouldn't.

Our reserve force needs the same equipment as the regular force to be an effective member of the CF. Although it usually tends never to happen that way we should not purposly take kit away from serving members of the CF, just because they dont do it full time.

So, by you saying "CF should stop giving every reservist a vest and start only giving them to the guys who need them" is a mute statement because we are all one army and we all need the same kit.

******

Anyways, thanks to the OP for bringing this up. I'm tired of seeing CF issued kit at games as well as being posted on ASC for sale. RETURN YOUR ISSUED KIT GUYS!
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Old April 25th, 2010, 13:19   #15
AngelusNex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylem_8 View Post
Ill equiping our reservists is NOT a good way to solve this issue. Reservists are out there doing just as good of a job as the regular force, so by targeting the reserves is just arrogence on your part. They need the equipment just as much as the next guy. There are many regular force members that you could say "don't need a TAC VEST".

With Operations including more and more reservists would you really want them to join you in an Operation without their full issued kit and properly know how to use it and have trained with it? I know I wouldn't.

Our reserve force needs the same equipment as the regular force to be an effective member of the CF. Although it usually tends never to happen that way we should not purposly take kit away from serving members of the CF, just because they dont do it full time.

So, by you saying "CF should stop giving every reservist a vest and start only giving them to the guys who need them" is a mute statement because we are all one army and we all need the same kit.

******

Anyways, thanks to the OP for bringing this up. I'm tired of seeing CF issued kit at games as well as being posted on ASC for sale. RETURN YOUR ISSUED KIT GUYS!
I was in the reserves.... I know guys who have been for years and they ALL PERMANENTLY get a Tac vest, where reg force only get them (for the most part) when being deployed, I'm just saying do the same with reserves and there will be much more vest to go around for those being deployed.
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