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Spring Comparison Chart - Updated April 1st, 2006

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Old April 14th, 2006, 11:41   #76
ILLusion
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There is truth to it, in that you need to increase the torque level. You will tear through your existing gear teeth as well as the piston's tooth rack if you do a lot of firing in full auto with that spring and stock gears.

The warning is in really bad Engrish, but what it's basically saying is that a lot of energy is built up in the motor when cranking springs M130 or harder. When the gears finally release the piston, the amount of built up energy is so excessive that it causes the gears to spin at a very high revolution, fast enough to cause it to start a new cycle before the piston even returns to battery. The result is the first sector gear tooth striking the last several piston teeth before it's in position for a new cycle. If this occurs often, you'll kill your piston.
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Old April 16th, 2006, 21:26   #77
Grimm
 
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Hey that explains a helluvalot! Someone also guessed that the Guarder Upgrade Kit gears are just ordinary gears and not torque-up ones. Now I'm asking myself, why would Guarder make and sell me a full upgrade kit with stock gears? I think the answer would be, I just got suckered!
Thanks for the info ILLusion!
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Old April 17th, 2006, 20:43   #78
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well the most common velocity upgrades don't require you to go beyond standard torque levels. Once you start going to M130 type power, then you need torque up gears. I recommend it for M120 as well.
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Old April 17th, 2006, 21:02   #79
Grimm
 
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ILLusion, according to your Spring Comparison Chart, SP120 should give me about 428.53fps. Although the specs for my piston, cylinder, cylinder head, etc may not be as good, shouldn't the Upgrade Kit give me at least 400fps instead of the 380fps that I got? What am I doing wrong? :sad:
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Old April 17th, 2006, 21:04   #80
Mantelope
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Are your barrel length and cylinder type matched?
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Old April 17th, 2006, 21:09   #81
Grimm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harleyb
Are your barrel length and cylinder type matched?
I'm using stock barrel and the Guarder Upgrade Kit was meant for my gun model, the Steyr AUG. So I guess u can say they are matched.
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Old April 17th, 2006, 21:33   #82
ILLusion
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Never compare your results to my chart. You will never get what I get.

Why?

Because my gun will always be better than yours.
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Old April 17th, 2006, 22:00   #83
Grimm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLusion
Never compare your results to my chart. You will never get what I get.

Why?

Because my gun will always be better than yours.

Fair enough.
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Old May 10th, 2006, 10:37   #84
cjfield1129
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLusion
Never compare your results to my chart. You will never get what I get.

Why?

Because my gun will always be better than yours.
I recently bought two new Airsoft Surgeon springs: stage 1 and 2. I wanted to test/chorno them. I have an upgraded Star G36 that has the quick spring change feature (which is awesome for tests like this I might add). I was using .20g AE bbs. Stage 1 chrono'd in at 330-335 fps and Stage 2 in at 375-380 fps. These results were consistent with what WGC (where I bought them) advertised that they should chrono at. I normally use a SP120 which chrono'd just prior to testing at 415-420 fps. I wish that I had bought the Stage 3 but I was unsure if I would need torque up gears.
Obviously my gun is not as perfect as Illusion's, but the Sp120 test was only 10 fps off. My G36 is upgraded with a Prometheus cylinder head, Systema NB Type 0 cylinder, Prometheus piston head w/ bearing, Guarder blue piston, metal spring guide w/bearing, Guarder nozzle, and Guarder bucking.
I say all that to ask why the Airsoft Surgeon springs would chrono so low while the other springs (PDI-series, M-series, SP-series, etc) were a consistent 10 fps less than Illusion's gun overall?
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Old May 11th, 2006, 14:41   #85
ILLusion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjfield1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLusion
Never compare your results to my chart. You will never get what I get.

Why?

Because my gun will always be better than yours.
I recently bought two new Airsoft Surgeon springs: stage 1 and 2. I wanted to test/chorno them. I have an upgraded Star G36 that has the quick spring change feature (which is awesome for tests like this I might add). I was using .20g AE bbs. Stage 1 chrono'd in at 330-335 fps and Stage 2 in at 375-380 fps. These results were consistent with what WGC (where I bought them) advertised that they should chrono at. I normally use a SP120 which chrono'd just prior to testing at 415-420 fps. I wish that I had bought the Stage 3 but I was unsure if I would need torque up gears.
Obviously my gun is not as perfect as Illusion's, but the Sp120 test was only 10 fps off. My G36 is upgraded with a Prometheus cylinder head, Systema NB Type 0 cylinder, Prometheus piston head w/ bearing, Guarder blue piston, metal spring guide w/bearing, Guarder nozzle, and Guarder bucking.
I say all that to ask why the Airsoft Surgeon springs would chrono so low while the other springs (PDI-series, M-series, SP-series, etc) were a consistent 10 fps less than Illusion's gun overall?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLusion
Never compare your results to my chart. You will never get what I get.

Why?

Because my gun will always be better than yours.




hehehehe.

Seriously though... given all controls were in place, it is safe to assume that springs are not manufactured exactly the same from batch to batch. Especially PDI springs... everyone knows how inconsistent those springs are from batch to batch.

Slight differences in materials used, even if the temperatures they were at when formed from molten raw materials to the cooling temperatures and time for the oil-quenched hardening will affect how the metals perform.

Because the Airsoft Surgeon springs are so new, they may still be ironing out production issues. Also, because their springs go through an extra plating process, that puts in another step which can affect how each batch of springs perform.
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Old May 13th, 2006, 16:56   #86
cjfield1129
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLusion
Never compare your results to my chart. You will never get what I get.

Why?

Because my gun will always be better than yours.
I got a higher one than you Illusion. I got in the Stage 3 (Airsoft Surgeon) spring in today and did a quick test. It chrono'd 465 fps. Nothing was changed/upgraded since previous tests -only the spring. Given your guns apparent +10 to 15 fps in relation with my guns results, this spring could possibly have shot 475-480 fps with your setup. WOW!
I am scared to use the spring though because even though it is short (comparable with a PDI 170), I'm not sure if the standard ratio gears would support it. Any thoughts?
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Old May 13th, 2006, 17:23   #87
ILLusion
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I highly doubt it can support it. Even if it did, you're putting a lot of extra stress on your motor.
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Old May 13th, 2006, 18:00   #88
cjfield1129
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLusion
I highly doubt it can support it. Even if it did, you're putting a lot of extra stress on your motor.
What motor did you use for the test(s)? What made you want to include that particular spring during your tests? Either way, the spring would be too hot for most field locations. I guess I'm just curious. Thanks for your help.
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Old May 13th, 2006, 18:12   #89
pinoyboy
 
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Hi, question about Guarder springs. I just ordered an SP120. Will it settle down some or will it always be somewhat stronger than a systema M120s?
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Old May 14th, 2006, 00:05   #90
ILLusion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjfield1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLusion
I highly doubt it can support it. Even if it did, you're putting a lot of extra stress on your motor.
What motor did you use for the test(s)? What made you want to include that particular spring during your tests? Either way, the spring would be too hot for most field locations. I guess I'm just curious. Thanks for your help.
The test platform was using an Eagle Force Hummer 1300L as well as Systema Torque Up gears.

I included that spring in the test because there was no existing information on that spring and how hot it would go..

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinoyboy
Hi, question about Guarder springs. I just ordered an SP120. Will it settle down some or will it always be somewhat stronger than a systema M120s?
I personally don't know as I've never used Guarder springs beyond the time period of the tests. As far as I can guess, Guarder springs don't settle down too much because they are pretty stiff springs as it is.
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