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Warm motor, warm lipo

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Old April 13th, 2014, 23:11   #16
wind_comm
 
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Originally Posted by ThunderCactus View Post
I've been shimming gears from the spur for 8 years, I've never run into excessive amp draw from any guns I've built. I've only ever noticed the condition from bad motors.
If you were holding the gear train up enough to cause an amp draw in excess of 40A, you'd be able to hear it for sure and your ROF would go up by an audible amount if you backed the motor off
you can hold your toothbrush via the bristles brush your teeth with the rubbery end for 8 years and not get a cavity, yer still doing it not quite right and you won't get the best results.
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Old April 13th, 2014, 23:25   #17
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Hi, I am dumb and do not read postings fully before I respond to them.

Last edited by DustMagnet; April 13th, 2014 at 23:45.. Reason: Removed observation already made in original freakin' post.
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Old April 13th, 2014, 23:32   #18
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If the accuracy mattered that much, you wouldn't have a free floating motor lol
All you're guaranteeing is that the pinion is in the proper range of adjustment.
This isn't like a PTW where the motor is at an exact fixed height and the shimming legitimately needs to be perfect.
As long as you're within the adjustment range of the bevel, all that's left is to adjust the motor height. If you really wanted to be exact about it, the motor wouldn't be free to adjust up and down and it especially wouldn't have any twisting play (like on a V2), and you'd properly shim the armatures in the motors.
Even if the bevel is shimmed out of adjustment range of the motor; if it was too close the sound is distinctly grindy, you can't miss it unless you're deaf. And if it was too far away, you wouldn't have excessive current draw at all, you'd just have a whining or a stripped pinion.

And AB or not, the lipo shouldn't be getting warm, and the fet shouldn't be tripping after just 15 shots. That's systema magnum kind of motor problems.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 12:17   #19
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I will test the continuity of the motor hoods when I can, unfortunately I don't have access to the gun right now as I don't live where I work on my guns. So I have purchased a lonex A1 motor. It should be here tomorrow. Hopefully I pop it in and everything is fine.
However in the off chance that the motor isn't the problem is there any chance that the new motor is Damaged by whatever the problem is?
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Old April 14th, 2014, 12:27   #20
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When you test your shim job do you assemble the gear box with screws and try and spin all 3 gears at once?

They should have zero drag if done right.

Second is how much "float" did you leave the bevel gear for play.

You get both of these wrong you WILL heat the motor and the lipo.

I have done exactly this a couple years ago. Often people test the shim without fully tightening the GB. They will close and hold with hands. Not good enough.

The Bevel is the same. If the bevel is in an absolute fixed position, meaning no ability to float, it will not be able to find its home with the motor.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 12:28   #21
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btw the issue I had with overheat WAS an ICS M4. Was too tight. When I mean spin freely it has to be like 20 rotations on a "coast", not ya I can spin it with my finger.

It must glide effortlessly.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 17:21   #22
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Originally Posted by Trev140_0 View Post
When you test your shim job do you assemble the gear box with screws and try and spin all 3 gears at once?

They should have zero drag if done right.

Second is how much "float" did you leave the bevel gear for play.

You get both of these wrong you WILL heat the motor and the lipo.

I have done exactly this a couple years ago. Often people test the shim without fully tightening the GB. They will close and hold with hands. Not good enough.

The Bevel is the same. If the bevel is in an absolute fixed position, meaning no ability to float, it will not be able to find its home with the motor.
Yes I close and tighten the shell and test each gear individually and then all three together, I'm pretty methodical with shimming. When I spin all three there is definitely no drag, but it doesn't take off for twenty rotations either. The only thing I feel is the weight of all three gears spinning if you know what I mean, sort of like there is momentum behind the spin. If I get them going pretty good by spinning with my finger they keep going for probably 10 plus rotations. Maybe it's worth mentioning that I'm using metal bushings and not bearing bushings. With the bevel there is very little play, but it does move slightly. Which is correct as far as I know.
So once my new motor gets here I think il re shim again ( from the bevel just to be sure) and pop the motor in. I'm pretty confident in the shim job and I'm thinking the motor is the problem.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 17:43   #23
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Yes I close and tighten the shell and test each gear individually and then all three together, I'm pretty methodical with shimming. When I spin all three there is definitely no drag, but it doesn't take off for twenty rotations either. The only thing I feel is the weight of all three gears spinning if you know what I mean, sort of like there is momentum behind the spin. If I get them going pretty good by spinning with my finger they keep going for probably 10 plus rotations. Maybe it's worth mentioning that I'm using metal bushings and not bearing bushings. With the bevel there is very little play, but it does move slightly. Which is correct as far as I know.
So once my new motor gets here I think il re shim again ( from the bevel just to be sure) and pop the motor in. I'm pretty confident in the shim job and I'm thinking the motor is the problem.
shimming from the bevel gives drastically different results as to where you end up putting your shims. don't even bother with the new motor, just give the new school way a try and see what what happens.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 17:54   #24
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Originally Posted by wind_comm View Post
shimming from the bevel gives drastically different results as to where you end up putting your shims. don't even bother with the new motor, just give the new school way a try and see what what happens.
The motor is already purchased, I was going to get one soon anyways.
I understand what your saying, that shimming from the bevel is the right way to do it and I'm not disagreeing with that, I am sceptical that it's causing this excess power draw. But it's either the bevel shimming or the motor at this point and I'm absolutely going to try both. How much play do you typically allow on your bevel?
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Old April 14th, 2014, 18:02   #25
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Shimming from the bevel is a better way to do things, but there is no way that a poorly meshing bevel and pinion is causing what you are describing without an audible grinding sound.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 18:28   #26
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That's what I'm thinking, I think if ANYWHERE in the gearbox was that tight it would make itself pretty known. But I have to try everything.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 19:31   #27
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Well like Trev said, if your gears spin freely with the mechbox shell closed and tight, then no amount of side to side shimming on the bevel would be causing this issue.
And like I said, if the bevel was shimmed to close to the motor, you'd definitely be able to hear it, and if it was shimmed too far away, it wouldn't be causing extra amp draw.
I could see a spur or especially a tightly shimmed sector gear causing extra amp draw, but not the pinion to bevel engagement.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 20:16   #28
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Originally Posted by ThunderCactus View Post
Well like Trev said, if your gears spin freely with the mechbox shell closed and tight, then no amount of side to side shimming on the bevel would be causing this issue.
And like I said, if the bevel was shimmed to close to the motor, you'd definitely be able to hear it, and if it was shimmed too far away, it wouldn't be causing extra amp draw.
I could see a spur or especially a tightly shimmed sector gear causing extra amp draw, but not the pinion to bevel engagement.

I am with you on the motor now.

As I was chasing my tail fixing my buddies god damn ICS M4 going through hell, I believe the motor had to be changed too. Was the ICS turbo.

That was after the shimming education on that GB.

As another note. Make sure you DONT change the nozzle or hop up on that gun if its the same M4. It will be a shit show of jamming, misfeed you name it. The m4 stuff like nozzles look VERY interchangeable but they aren't.


Stay with the stock shit or you will be spending quality time opening and closing that gun.

And when you finally bend the guard plate for the wires in the mag well (front wired) and accidentally nick the wires-then you will be shopping for a new VFC as this becomes your back up.

sorry---touched a nerve.

.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 20:48   #29
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When I first put the motor in it definitely had an audible noise, but it was a height adjustment problem and was fixed quickly.
I just had to replace the hop up as it had a hairline crack, and now funny enough the nozzle is indeed broken, as I already had an order that hadn't shipped I added the ZCI nozzle to it ( lonex nozzle is sold out). The nozzle actually isn't a proprietary part, but It can for sure be a pain to get non ics ones to work. If it's too much of a pain il just replace it with an ics.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 20:52   #30
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I just had to replace the hop up as it had a hairline crack, and now funny enough the nozzle is indeed broken, as I already had an order that hadn't shipped I added the ZCI nozzle to it ( lonex nozzle is sold out). The nozzle actually isn't a proprietary part, but It can for sure be a pain to get non ics ones to work. If it's too much of a pain il just replace it with an ics.

ICS nozzle IS proprietary.

Take a ICS nozzle and an regular M4 nozzle.

Stand them up on a flat surface and look. You will see about 1mm in height difference. (shorter on the ICS)

That 1mm is the difference between !@## and ahhhhh....

Clearance to allow the bb enter the hop up chamber or not. Mis-feed/Jam.
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