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-   -   Force Recon Nightfall 3 --- Real Cap? (https://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=163763)

Knocturnal April 3rd, 2014 22:42

Force Recon Nightfall 3 --- Real Cap?
 
Was talking with my bro about the game and we weren't on the same page when it came to ammo count. Rules are not clear... In Quebec, as soon as Milsim is added to the title of the game, there is no question about it being real cap. On the Force Recon site, infinite ammo though, high caps are not accepted. Doesn't clarify the situation, as most of us use mid caps to play with the respective ammo count associated with the weapon (example. M4 = 30 bbs per mag +4-6 to compensate for loss). So does this mean I'll be running with close to 1800 rounds as a rifleman?

w1lp33 April 3rd, 2014 22:58

You can load 100+ bb's in each mag if you want to. Some guys will self-restrict to realcap loads in their mags, but it's not a requirement for the game. So if you want to carry 18 midcap mags loaded with 100 bb's each, then yes, you can run with 1800 rounds as a rifleman.

lurkingknight April 4th, 2014 00:03

you can carry as much loaded ammo and mags as you want as long as they're not highcaps.

Ares April 4th, 2014 07:31

They compensate for the large ammo loads by forcing everyone but SAW gunners shot semi only

Knocturnal April 4th, 2014 07:52

Sorry for my ignorance, but why is it a milsim if real cap is not enforced? The main thing that separates a regular and milsim game is the use of realistic ammo count. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the real world, infantrymen carry anywhere in between 8-16 mags, most commonly 10-12. So considering one of these warriors is carrying 16, he's maxing out at 480, which is a shit load of ammo. I can replicate this ultimate warrior by filling 160 rounds in 3 separate mid caps. I find this defeats the purpose of running a military simulation. I'm not second guessing this, or complaining, it's just I've never played a milsim not requiring the use of realistic ammo count. I've always associated milsim as being the most realistic as possible, not strictly for the scenario. Regardless, I've been like a little girl getting a pony for christmas since I found out I was going to this event!

@Ares, your right they are compensating, but the fact of having huge amounts of ammo in a single mag removes the realistic side of strategic decisions during firefights.

lurkingknight April 4th, 2014 07:53

cause it's fun?

icaris April 4th, 2014 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knocturnal (Post 1880603)
Was talking with my bro about the game and we weren't on the same page when it came to ammo count. Rules are not clear... In Quebec, as soon as Milsim is added to the title of the game, there is no question about it being real cap. On the Force Recon site, infinite ammo though, high caps are not accepted. Doesn't clarify the situation, as most of us use mid caps to play with the respective ammo count associated with the weapon (example. M4 = 30 bbs per mag +4-6 to compensate for loss). So does this mean I'll be running with close to 1800 rounds as a rifleman?

Its actually a pretty simple answer.


Ammo limits and real caps suck and we dont like them, so we dont have them. :)

The_Redneck April 4th, 2014 11:25

Because alot of people won't abide by the "real cap" rule and then you have people arguing and bitching about players having more then 30 rounds in their mag and there are way to many players to be checking everyone's mags

-=ArchAngel=- April 4th, 2014 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knocturnal (Post 1880645)
Sorry for my ignorance, but why is it a milsim if real cap is not enforced? The main thing that separates a regular and milsim game is the use of realistic ammo count. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the real world, infantrymen carry anywhere in between 8-16 mags, most commonly 10-12. So considering one of these warriors is carrying 16, he's maxing out at 480, which is a shit load of ammo. I can replicate this ultimate warrior by filling 160 rounds in 3 separate mid caps. I find this defeats the purpose of running a military simulation. I'm not second guessing this, or complaining, it's just I've never played a milsim not requiring the use of realistic ammo count. I've always associated milsim as being the most realistic as possible, not strictly for the scenario. Regardless, I've been like a little girl getting a pony for christmas since I found out I was going to this event!

@Ares, your right they are compensating, but the fact of having huge amounts of ammo in a single mag removes the realistic side of strategic decisions during firefights.

My reasoning would be that BB =/= Bullets. BBs in general do not have the same accuracy and range that bullets do. So we up the BB count to compensate for this.

Kwokwai April 4th, 2014 13:22

It's more of a logistics thing from the organizer's standpoint. As Redneck stated above, you can't spend all of your time and ref resources policing if a player has loaded >30 BBs when you have hundreds of players that you have to keep moving and motivated for a 24hr scenario.

Until it's possible to provide mandatory realcap mag usage with mags provided by the game organizers and still ensure that somebody didn't sneak in a mag of their own this is the easiest way to go about it.

hollywood... April 4th, 2014 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwokwai (Post 1880687)
Until it's possible to provide mandatory realcap mag usage with mags provided by the game organizers and still ensure that somebody didn't sneak in a mag of their own this is the easiest way to go about it.

or,.. spot checks, anyone who gets checked and has exceeded the ammo limit gets shown the door with no refund

Aper April 4th, 2014 14:49

So basically you guys are telling that you're scared that players might sneak in Hi-Caps / Mid-Caps during a Real Cap event ?

And I thought airsoft was all about honesty and integrity ... oh well !

PS; A milsim without a real cap isn't really a milsim. And don't come around with the 1 BB =/= 1 Bullet bullshit. If you're in for a Milsim, the number of BBs that you have to shoot during the game should be the last of your concerns. I managed to shoot 6 BBs during a 10-hour game and had myself a blast. But I guess for each their own.

hollywood... April 4th, 2014 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aper (Post 1880705)
So basically you guys are telling that you're scared that players might sneak in Hi-Caps / Mid-Caps during a Real Cap event ?

And I thought airsoft was all about honesty and integrity ... oh well !

PS; A milsim without a real cap isn't really a milsim. And don't come around with the 1 BB =/= 1 Bullet bullshit. If you're in for a Milsim, the number of BBs that you have to shoot during the game should be the last of your concerns. I managed to shoot 6 BBs during a 10-hour game and had myself a blast. But I guess for each their own.

agreed!

Kwokwai April 4th, 2014 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aper (Post 1880705)
So basically you guys are telling that you're scared that players might sneak in Hi-Caps / Mid-Caps during a Real Cap event ?

And I thought airsoft was all about honesty and integrity ... oh well !

PS; A milsim without a real cap isn't really a milsim. And don't come around with the 1 BB =/= 1 Bullet bullshit. If you're in for a Milsim, the number of BBs that you have to shoot during the game should be the last of your concerns. I managed to shoot 6 BBs during a 10-hour game and had myself a blast. But I guess for each their own.

The following is my own opinion; not that of the organizers since I've not been involved in any of the planning or discussions around this event. Just my thoughts based on events that I've been to in the past.

I wouldn't say that's true. It's more accurate to say that it's less admin headache and to give a little breathing space for those who want to participate but may not have real caps. The rules are no high cap mags; the rest is up to the individuals to maintain their own honesty and integrity.

From my perspective it's a give-and-take in order provide a good experience overall to a majority of those that choose to participate and not have to be stuck nitpicking a specific detail that we can all hope that everybody will be mature enough to work with.

As to your experience, it can vary. In my first Op Pine Plains experience I only shot... maybe two standard TM mags worth of BBs over a 21 hr experience in a MOUT environment. The 2nd time I was there the following year I probably ended up running through half a bag of 3000. Same environment, same scenario, same organization, similar numbers of players but completely different dynamic.

All's good as long as everybody gets what they put into it and want out of it. Anyways, I'll leave it at that.

Kwokwai April 4th, 2014 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywood... (Post 1880689)
or,.. spot checks, anyone who gets checked and has exceeded the ammo limit gets shown the door with no refund

Not sure but there might actually be something about that in the rules. Worth checking the rules if it's a concern to anybody who's thinking about showing up with high caps.


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