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MadMax September 15th, 2007 14:07

Send me feedback: Grenade public demo sept 15th at TTAC3 Anniversary
Thanks for running an exciting anniversary celebration Brian. Excellent CQC action. I wish I got to play more, but I was filling grenades all night.

A lot of new users got a chance to deploy or be blown up by one of my prototypes. Any comments/complaints?

Grenade stats for the night:

~9000 bbs blasted from grenades (180bbs/nade)
~50 deployments of grenades
~1.5 bottles of propane expended

Tankdude September 15th, 2007 14:16

pictures? videos?

....detailed drawings with dimensions....?

MadMax September 15th, 2007 14:39

Sorry, I'm not posting pics or video until the test shots from the injection mould are done. The protos are fully functional, but they look kind of gross. Pics of them could mar my launch by giving a crummy first impression. I'm renting a high speed video camera for a promo video. It'll set me back a fair bit, but it's the only way to really appreciate how my product works without being in the same room.

Berkut September 15th, 2007 15:08

Well since it seems like most of the "testers" are either jumping out of the plane or sleeping off the "debriefing" part of the night I guess I will start...

Even though I did not have chance to toss grenades last night, I did however play with them during "testing" stage few times before, I got blown up by those few times, in CQB environment those things are a definite success - I mean in a medium sized room rate of hits was, I'd say, 100% with multiple hits as a norm, so people would definitely feel being hit. I did notice that heavier BBs had more effect and in CQB there is no real need for range, but there is a need for players to feel hits. I know few people were set back by the lack of "BANG!", but in close quarters environment I think it is more favorable - no need to worry about people going deaf, even temporally. "Oh shit" factor is there - I mean I saw few people bolting out of the rooms, at the times right into the entry team's fire, with grenade tossed into the room, at the same time there were few cases of entry teams being wiped out by the grenades bouncing off the walls and coming back, so some skill is required when using them.
I had a grenade going off between my legs, I think it was one of those "cold" ones, and it did not hurt THAT much, I also think someone (Nacci?) landed on the grenade and took the full blast - didn't see him crying over it, I actually think he liked it :). So yes they are safe, as safe as airsoft product can get.
Reloading cycle is simple enough and with some practice should not be a problem even for novice players. With few build in safety features it is pretty fool proof, although I think with enough effort somebody could screw something up :) Non pyro part is great, all you need is a propane tank with AI adapter and little bit of water (I know people will say "WTF? Water?" but wait until you try it) so there is no need for ANY additional stuff to buy, well with exception of like 100 little grenade pouches, and yes those things do fit in standard grenade pouch! :) I'm not sure how far I can into reloading process, so I will shut up and just say it is pretty simple.
Not sure what else to add...
Oh yeah - they look like standard DD/HEs with interchangeable outer shell covers, Carl correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember we were talking about it, so people can customize the look to their liking, this will also make it easier to ID whose grenades are whose once tossing match is over :)
Don't have any videos, nor pictures at this point. Maybe we should run capped tester again with someone filming actual action, no close ups of grenades or re-loadings?
That is it for now - I know there are not much details, but the product is still being developed and patented, so I don't know how far we can go with this.

On a con side - after about 10-15 reloading cycles withing very short period of time between them 'nades became a bit cold and timing got little bit messed up, but that was achieved with crowd of people tossing them non-stop with Carl as dedicated speedy reloader, during actual game that should not be a problem. Those who use GBBs, which is pretty much everybody, know how those mags get messed up if fired alot whiting short period of time, it is pretty much same thing here, so keep em warm and don't over use grenades.

Phew... that's it...

MadMax September 15th, 2007 15:20

I'm considering foam covers, but I have to see what the legal ramifications would be as they'd cover the instructions and limitation of liability on the back of my grenade. A beer foamy sleeve would look pretty good as it could be printed with actual grenade markings, but I'm not too happy about covering the abbreviated users manual I'm going to print on my nades.

I definitely had some loading problems. The loading procedure is not completely idiot proof. Three major stages (reload gas, bbs, set delay) make for three places to screw up. Missing either of the first two stages results in a dudnade that doesn't blast pellets. Missing the third step sets the grenade for a zero delay. Pull the pin and the grenade immediately triggers.

Running the grenades as fast as I could reload them resulted in them getting very cold which reduced the propane pressure. At least it's not really a problem that should crop up in the field. On average, I think a grenade was going off every 2.5 minutes last night because I just loaded grenades full time.

Berkut September 15th, 2007 15:22


Originally Posted by MadMax (Post 537181)
I'm considering foam covers, but I have to see what the legal ramifications would be as they'd cover the instructions and limitation of liability on the back of my grenade. A beer foamy sleeve would look pretty good as it could be printed with actual grenade markings, but I'm not too happy about covering the abbreviated users manual I'm going to print on my nades.

Makes sense.

Nacchi September 15th, 2007 15:33

Yes, a grenade did blew up under my posterior last night. I was lowering myself to sit down on the floor after being hit when someone rolled it under me to clear the room. Anyway, no lasting effect is felt to my bottom after the initial impact.

I can only say good things about this product and will be purchasing several when it is released. Berkut has covered most of what I wanted to say about it.

One thing though, I had a bit of trouble getting my gloved fingers into the rings during the previous testing and I managed to separate one ring from the pin as I pulled it from a weird angle. I guess it is more of a suggestion if it is not addressed already is to have larger and stronger rings for the pin.

MadMax September 15th, 2007 16:43

I'm planning to go with heavy gauge 1.125" diameter rings. Unfortunately I haven't been able to wind my own very consistently so prototype testing is being done with a salad of wire rings and tie wraps.

So far the only ring I like is the one big 1.125" one that I've got. I think I'll get them painted bright red as the red tie wrap rings we used last night were easy to find on the floor.

deltaop1 September 15th, 2007 23:44

Hi Carl ... Having been at the TTAC3 session last night, and having been on the receiving end of the grenades, I think it is a great product. The one question that comes to my mind is this ... will the finished product have some way of enabling the user to identify which specific grenade is there's? Consider this scenario ... multiple grenades are tossed into the same area, when I go to retrieve my grenade will I be able to know which one is mine if they all look the same?

Not a big issue, as an owner I could always jury rig some identification scheme ... perhaps a bit of tape with a label would do.

MadMax September 16th, 2007 02:45

Hi Stephen,

It's not hard to apply a tape name tag. You can also tie a sash to one place on the grenade to make the grenade easier to find. I've goofed around with a bright 2' sash which facilitates finding. You can also write your name on the cloth.

Rico September 16th, 2007 03:03

Hey Carl
First off, thanks again for the demo. Really excited about the production run. Truthfully, I can't think of any really significant negatives. I was a little bit disappointed with the lack of a spoon, but in light of the loss/damage potential of the spoon, it makes sense not to include one. A separate spoon kit perhaps?;)
Also, on the protos, there were 2 flat sides along the length of the grenade, are those going to be in the production?
The reloading of the grenade did not seem too complicated nor time consuming. Recall that I timed you reloading and it only took 90 seconds or so. Do you anticipate any problems with people breaking the tips of syringes in the 'nade?

MadMax September 16th, 2007 03:33

The flats are there to provide a tacticle feature to help users properly orient their grenade before yanking on the pin. I once had a very round grenade. I noticed that users bent a lot of pins because they were frequently pulling across the pins. After a little practice, it's easy to pull inline with the pin as you remember to pull in line with the ridges.

Later models will not be needing a plastic syringe tip on the syringe. The syringe can plug right into the top of the grenade without a conical tip.

dontask September 16th, 2007 12:55

why not just taper a little bit at the top where you can feel it with your finger and thumb but still retain the cylindrical shape to be rolled?

tomsoderman September 16th, 2007 14:43

any idea how much you are going to charge for them?

grimdog73 September 16th, 2007 15:41

just a thought...
Since you brought up the fact of a foam cover obscuring your labels, what about a clear plastic wrap for the foam cover? That way the person can opt whether to use the foam cover or not, and either way the short user manual and warnings are still there. Unsure what the costs of this would be, but might bear looking into.

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