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Rosco38 June 24th, 2019 16:41

TM NGRS upgraded vs “Tack” PTW
Hey all I’m stuck between these 2 guns. They are priced similarly.

Ptw pros : quick change cylinder - get a 416 upgrade body kit - easily to maintain
Cons : expensive af - not as reliable bolt stop system - misfeeds common- motor issues - have to send to Tack once a year for service - have to clean it often

Tm pros : reliable as hell - cheaper mags - bolt stop reliable - never misfeed- cheaper - swappable FPS (not as easy as ptw but still easier with 2 inner barrel builds ) - motor isn’t gonna break anytime soon - don’t have to service it or maintain it nearly as often.
Cons - not as good externals as cnc aluminum kit - not 1:1 -

I live in the states and play indoor and outdoor so swappable FPS is nice to go from 350 to 400!
With a TM I can do 2 inner barrel builds and swap them depending where I am playing.

So yeah what would you guys do in this situation?

Thing to consider is eventually Tm will get an upgraded body!

Canadian Psycho June 25th, 2019 10:53

PTW 100%. once tack'd you don't need to worry about it. I have two, the first one had a tack'd motor put in it 2009, hundreds of thousands of bb's since then, opened it a couple seasons back for a checkup, just needed lube. The other is newer but same deal, no issues. They work, I don't need to strip them down every month to fix them. I don't play as much as I once did, but they require little maintenance, a wipe down and the occasional re-lube.

Run good ammo and you won't have feeding issues. I've never had issues with my bolt stops other than occasionally catching it on gear but not a big deal. Still worth the price imo, been running dubs for 11 years, only ever had one fail, and that was my fault for playing in a 12 hour downpour (Claybank 2) not many guns survived that day.

Rosco38 June 25th, 2019 11:02

So the whole “send it back to Tack” once a year doesn’t apply?

Or for at least the motor? That’s what I’m worried about honestly.

Where would you lube it ?

Canadian Psycho June 25th, 2019 11:34

nope, it sure doesn't. Both my dubs have several seasons on their motors and never had an issue. Once tack'd they should be good. Do you know which motor is in the dub you're looking at?

Stick to Systema brand parts, get the motor tack'd and the hop-up mod done. You'll be playing for years without issue. The internals are extremely well built, not alot of issues with them. Biggest thing would be a cylinder becoming loose after alot of use.

For lube, same as a normal AEG, the mechbox and cylinder. I strip down the cylinders once in awhile, do a quick inspection and lube. Mechbox is a once ever few seasons affair. I haven't touched the internals of mine in a couple seasons, but would have no issue picking it up and playing a 24hr game without a though on the gun going down.

riley_A June 25th, 2019 11:37

The motors only really need to be sent back to Tac if you blow a winding or if you arent comfortable doing brush changes on your own. As far as maintenance goes, just keep your barrel clean and occasionally take apart your cylinders to clean and lube the seals in there.

Another option that you could consider since you're in the states is the APTW made by Z-shot. They're incredibly high quality, as they should be, and I think their bodies are all milled out real firearm receivers. Same quality internals as well and the motors are supposedly very good as well and should last a long time.

Lastly to address your concerns about the bolt catch function, I would suggest looking into the HAO magnetic bolt catch. It uses magnets instead of a spring so its far more reliable than the original spring actuated bolt catch. I have one in my PTW and the rest of the guys I play with also use this bolt catch or the original (but discontinued) systema magnetic catch.

Rosco38 June 25th, 2019 14:00

How often do the brushes need to be changed ?

For a ngrs how often do you have to do maintaince

manchovie June 25th, 2019 14:15

I'd say TM. It'll be 1/4 of the price, externals are definitely good enough you don't need to switch anything. Recoil is weak but definitely enhances the experience. Barely have to upgrade anything to get great performance at 350-400fps. Just make sure you use a good battery, I've got a 7.4v 2600mah titan in mine, fits in one side of the stock and makes it into a beast.

wind_comm June 25th, 2019 14:50

just gonna leave this here.

also, if you believe that 2 drops of glue in your ptw hopup is worth paying hundreds of dollars for, then by all means, tackleberry has a bridge to sell you.

Rosco38 June 25th, 2019 15:13

Hmm. How often must it go back to Tack? As I said before pricing is similar so my main concern here is external quality and just Overall mantiance.

BioRage June 25th, 2019 15:19

1. VFC x Spectre
2. TM NGRS x Spectre

See also:

Rosco38 June 25th, 2019 16:20

Any reason why you say ngrs over a PtW? The pricing is very simikar

Drake June 25th, 2019 16:33

Look, it all comes down to personal preferences. It's like asking people about their favorite pickup truck. Every platform has pros and cons and people prefer certain things over others: if there was anything out there that was really vastly and definitely superior to everything else then only morons would be using anything else. But that isn't the case. If you asked me I'd say get a GBBR because that's what I enjoy. I'm comfortable working on gas systems and tuning them, I know the shortcomings of the platform, the costs involved, etc.

What you really need to be asking is the real pitfalls of each platform so you know what you're getting yourself into, and make an informed decision based on that along with whichever criteria you started off with.

ThunderCactus June 25th, 2019 20:33


Originally Posted by Rosco38 (Post 2067873)
Hmm. How often must it go back to Tack? As I said before pricing is similar so my main concern here is external quality and just Overall mantiance.

Never. We have PTW techs in this country.
You can ship your hop chamber to me to do the hop mod
maintenance is RIDICULOUSLY easy to do on a ptw. Just clean the barrel and regrease the cylinder once a year with the correct grease (tamiya ceramic grease seems to work).
IF the motor dies, just get a new 490.

Bolt catch is really reliable with the magnetic stop. Before those, most people would just stretch the mag release spring so it required more force to engage. The issue was bumping it and having it stay on even though the mag wasn't empty.

Mags are tweaky. If you get upgraded springs, running one systema and one upgraded spring seems to do the trick.

The PTW is easier to make shoot awesome, swap cylinders, do maintenance.
Their major failing is that systema LOATHES airsofters and thus hasn't made any innovations on the platform since 2008, because they don't see airsoft guns as competition.

Rosco38 June 26th, 2019 09:15

I’m in the USA lol.

And tackleberry said I can use genuine systema mags and be okay. Think I like the ptw more because I can get a cnc body!

Rosco38 June 26th, 2019 15:59

Going to get a ptw seems to be easier to maintain and don’t have to send it to Tack very often..

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